WLA focuses on both compilling and packages I guess, since the former is necessary to get the latter. Our "official" build method (which is almost exactly yours) is here : http://darwingimp.sourceforge.net/buildgimp.html. Providing help files, support and (later) a native version + a plugin repository are also goals.



I renamed the scripts in SVN simply because i thought it was clearer what their purpose is, that's all. I can rename them back, no big deal.

This is one thing though we should really sort out. GIMP on mac comes from so many sources that don't collaborate very much. First there's the gimp-app project, whose leader, despite invitation, won't join us. I'm just a bit sad to see you create yet another project while I could easily have given you dev (or even admin) rights here, avoiding splitting the effort. But I'd rather do team work than just link to your website... cause if i do this, WLA has very little use anymore

So when will we see the Tiger version? I'm sitting around with old 2.4.6...

And any chance the native GIMP can also be made for Tiger? Or made into a universal binary?

I'm currntly building a Tiger/Intel Version an my MacBook. After some testing, I will release it. If everyting runs well... the release will follow tomorrow.

I've been thinking now for hours if I should post these lines or just leave them somewhere on my harddrive and trying to forget about the last few days.

But I can't stand it.

On 1. Oct. 2008, Gimp 2.6 was released and I started to spend much time on getting 2.6 to run on OS X. Finally I did it and posted this information here on WLA's forum. But instead of feeling good and having pleasure with this brand new version, it turned out to become - let's say - exhausting. Long postings, longer explanations, and ... less fun. And... I was getting angry. Why?

Here is my point of view.

A few days before 2.6 was released I joined in again on WLA. I read many postings to get a general idea about what's going on and made some postings to topics on which I had some fixes or improvements. At least I thought I had. Nothing special, but somehow it seems to me that my postings were of little interest.

The xcf-plugin.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=540
I made a small improvement, I got a big "Thanks"... but it's still not in SVN. OK, this might happen....just forgotten

The twain_LINK bug
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2457&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
I fixed a bug in the twain plugin, which broke compilation. No big deal. But no hint about this fix in the build instructions. OK. Very minor, since 2.6 will arrive soon.
In the meantime I learned how to create MacPorts patchfiles.... and fixed this bug on my own build and provided this build to others.

The font size problem
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2732
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2731
I discoverd a hint on macosxhints about how to fix the font size problem under X11. And I posted it here. Although this is the "correct" way to fix it and everything else is a workaround, it's not included here on WLA. Not even a hint in the FAQ. Hhmm, although minor, the fix is very useful. So why not fixing this?

The answer: upstream should do it. Users aren't able to do this.

Changing one line in a shell script? But WLA supports users to compile a package like Gimp consisting of dozens of ports.... astonishing.

Then came the "great discussion"
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2731

about Clearlooks:
I've read postings on WLA that some people wanted Clearlooks. Alright, so I included it in "my" release as there were no problems at all with this port.
Result: No! In former times there were some problems, and if _I _ would know the cause for that former bug and fix it, then it will be included.
Great. How should I know the cause why Gimp crashes on some foreign computers with a binary that I didn't compile? .... very astonishing.

about dbus:
same situation as Clearlooks. I included this in "my" version of the app bundle. (BTW, which runs pretty well...)
Now what was the answer?: Will not be included, because it crashed.
Crashed? Maybe. I don't know. But this is, let's say, history! dbus does a great job on my system and with dbus drag&drop works like a charme.

But, no chance. The only thing I got was " unless you know a compelling reason".

IMO I had the best reasons one could think of: I works like a charme and most important, as you can see in Gimp 2.6, drag & drop now won't work without dbus.
And of course, believe me, I know what dbus is about on linux (I'm working with linux from the very beginning. I still own a 5.25 ``floppy with kernel 0.98!) ....

about improvements to ufraw:
You know what comes...
Not to be included. If upstream will include it, then WLA will include it. No way to do it earlier.
But why should upstream include it? These patches are _only_ related to Mac OS X way of dealing with preferences and extensions: no use of dotfiles, use of *.tiff instead of *.tif. .... slowly getting angry, but still not caring about.

about ghostscript:
I dropped it, because I thought it was about printing only.
I got a hint that it's necessary to open eps files.
Thanks. Take a look at "my" latest build. Ghostscript is included, because I got a very logical and reasonable answer. BTW, ghostscript is not a dependency of gimp in MacPorts. Please remember this later...

about greycstoration:
One of the best free noise reduction tools, so I included it in "my" build.
Guess what...
Answer: will not be included because "...if we start shipping all useful plug-ins our builds will become huge. " ... ..... anger comes

Aha. Including gimp-lqr-plugin in WLA-Gimp ... that's ok. But including a powerful plugin which provides great functionality will blow up the build? Should I count the bytes a plugin will take? Oh sorry, I forgot: gimp-lqr-plugin is included by default in MacPorts. Or is gimp-lqr-plugin included it because WLA want's to follow the defaults and nobody knows how to drop nodoka out of the gimp Portfile and so it came to compile and build these ports manually? (hard to follow...? Take a look at the Portfile in "graphics/gimp" and compare this to the build instructions on WLA) But then, why dropping macfile-gimp and xsane? It's a default in MacPorts. Does nobody need xsane? Or has it crashed?

Questions. Even more questions

about preferences to "interpolation lanczos".
You can expect it, I know:
Will not be included, because "we're the official build so I'd rathe keep the defaults..."
Does anybody remember the discussions about the new default setting in Gimp 2.6 for the toolbox window? "Official" default is "utility window". Period.
What did I do when I build the "rc1" package? I didn't touch the new default setting and tried to give advice to users asking about how to change this. Imagine what WLA want's? Changing the defaults!

Ok, I got some "positive" answer too.
Version checking / Info.plist
"Good change. This is one I'll merge (or duplicate if it turns out to be easier)"
... merging! Of course. This looks more like a "native WLA improvement"..... no more comments...


And finally the big question "Gimp 2.6 for Mac?"
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2909

Everyone was waiting for 2.6. So I tried hard, released "rc1" and asked for help to test it on other computers than mine. As far as I remeber, this had never happend before on WLA. No tests in real life situations prior to releases of final builds.

BTW, thanks to everybody who tested this release. Thank you.

And then came: "Portfiles please, portfiles please".

What did I do? I wrote a very detailed posting, including all scripts and everything I had done to make compiling and packaging easier and tried to give support on how to adopt it to Tiger. Guess what happens?
These scripts and the portfile hierarchy was taken almost literally to SVN. I mean. Portfiles! No bug fixes, no improvements, no new features for Gimp. Portfiles and build scripts.

Of course, I released them as GPLed software and the GPL allows you to use, distribute, improve and modify them. But coping literally AND RENAMING... puuh. Maybe the GPL will give you these rights too. I don't know. But IMO that doesn't matter. Simply copying scripts almost literally (BTW, including a typo... wow, great work) and renaming them, appears to me more like you're claiming these scripts as your own work. This is no "good practice".

And why should anybody upload an already online available build to another site? The web is about linking information, not grabbing information on one site! HTTP. HyperTextTransferProtocol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext

Or is it more like claiming the build as a "WLA release"?

But not enough.

Because users really couldn't await downloading Gimp 2.6, I got heavy load on my site and so much traffic that I had to find I quick solution for hosting the *dmg elsewhere. You know, I may have to pay for this traffic. So I decided to use Mediafire. Why? Because I thought that one day this build may be hosted on WLA and then I will be able to delete it from Mediafire, so no other site, which will now link to this build, will confuse users in the future why there is another Gimp 2.6 bundle.

Trust me, it would have been easy for me to upload it to SF in the first place - I'm on SF for years and you can take a look at https://sourceforge.net/projects/gimponosx too, where you can see that this project was registered in Dec. 2007 - but this IMO would have brought even more confusion to users. Another site on SF dealing with Gimp packages. But what did I get? Laughter about using Mediafire. Wow!

So now the build is on SF, and as you might know, where it can't be deleted.... I don't want people to laugh at me... not after all this work, not after all this time working on Gimp. I've been working with Christoph on buidling Gimp since the very beginnings, even before WLA had started...

And finally,

you're blaming _ME_ not to collaborate? That _I_ split efforts? That _I_ don't do team work? And _I_ am responsible that WLA has very little use anymore?

Who shared every information, enhancements and new scripts? Who wrote postings with hundreds of lines describing everything in detail? Who placed several links on websites including most pages on my site to point to WLA?
This is no team work? This has nothing to do with collaboration? This splits efforts? Makes WLA useless?

What about including and dropping packages at will? Not placing links? Not updating SVN with improvements? What about copying foreign code and renaming it? Ah, you "... thought it was clearer what their purpose is". Is this team work? Why not asking me? I wrote those scripts. Really. I know why they have these names. Yes, I do. I have the copyright and bave you rights to do various things. Period. Wanna learn more? Read the GPL.
Now you're willing to give me high privs on SVN. Why now? Worried about getting stuck on a "useless" site?

You see that I'm very angry, no, more than just very angry, about all those things that had happend the last few days. But I think I had to tell it, so that some things may have been cleared up.

At least from _my_ point of view.

As I love open source software I will still continue to support the free software community by posting bug fixes, searching for improvements or helping others to make great software even better. But currently I just want to go back to have pleasure with this brand new versions of Gimp, back to the pleasure, the last few days have taken away...

Now you can flame me.

-skl

I understand your point of view. I guess what happens is that I just don't have enough time to contribute to this.

So, I will probably just leave this to you. Feel free to take any steps you wish, I don't think I can lead this project anymore

Sorry if I seemed rude. It was probably a wrong impression, but I had the impression that you did not want to join the effort seriously, only provide files (but that's maybe because I can't read German so I don't really know what you're doing on your website).

Long answer now.

This project was started a while ago by Christoph, because GIMP 2.4 had been released but no mac version had yet been made. Quickly, a WLA team grew, with lots of development and packagers. When he left, I just took over the project, not wanting it to die. I however probably did not have as much time as he did, therefore I needed to rely more heavily on the contributions of others. But about the same time, the WLA team started to tear apart (is it me? is it because of the forum move? or was it short-lived anyway? I don't know and don't really want to answer this). So, I was left in the situation where lots of people asked for GIMP builds on mac, I was alone doing it, and just lacked the time. This is perhaps why I could have seemed a bit arrogant to some - just trying to keep this project up and running the best I could with my limited resources. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough that I was totally open to get more people on board - if this is the case, my apologies.
In any case, this project is getting more and more frustrating. People complain that GIMP crashes, so I chage to theme to another theme. Then people complain that the theme is ugly and want the old one back. Now i'm not trying to blame anyone, but you can surely understand than in order to get stable packages i just need to take decisions? I decided to go for stability over eye-candy simply because i don't have the time to track the crash and fix it. Maybe on Leopard it works, i don't know - but on Tiger it did crash and we still support tiger. About the quicklook plugin, as i said, i don't have Leopard so there's no way I can do anything with it. The original author just seemed to disappear before it was complete so I could not ask him to integrate it. Maybe it's ready now, i don't know, i don't have time. Someone who could finish it could just ask for SVN access, i've been very open in the past to such requests - then it could have been commited directly by the person that can test it. About the portfiles, my rationale was simply to be able to produce binaries for Tiger and/or PPC, since i thought you only supported Leopard/Intel. I integrated the scripts simply in an attempt to show that i valued your work, thinking you'd prefer it if WLA did the builds since on SF we have the bandwidth.

Anyway i'm soon going to get a new mac, so I guess Tiger/PPC would have stopped soon enough anyway.

Now, there are 4 gimp projects on mac. Simone's, Gimp.app, WLA, macgimp (not counting macports). I'm not getting anything positive anymore from doing this project. I do not wish anymore to lead it. I'm still ready to spend time on GIMP but no more as leader - that was becoming a burden, with very little positive feedback. So I quit being a leader. I may still work but no more alone, maybe doing packages once in a while.

There's too many projects over here. So I'm officially dropping WLA here. If someone wants to take it, just tell me and i'll give you admin rights. Simone, feel free to contact the gimp.org folks to become the "official" mac packages source.

I don't mean to be mean to anyone. I'm just increasingly ovewhelmed by this project. Sorry for all and good luck.

I'm sorry to hear that. thanks for you time

It's unfortunate to hear this. you have definitely contributed more than anyone could ask over the past months and I can fully understand your current situation.
Thanks for all the time and effort you have put into macgimp and I'm hoping somebody picks it up from where you left..

Wish you all the best and good luck.

Oh what's going on here. I am really suprise about these hard reactions...

It would be very sad, if this project is dying.

Simone you always did a good job, a real good job. I had not followed this discussion. You always did share informations. thanks for that.

Auria, you did a great job here. You kept this project alive and put much efford in it. thanks.

Gimp is Opensource, that's why there a many ports. I don't find it that bad.

It just want to wish everyone for the work. I personally don't have the time anymore, sadly.

I have been watching developments here at Wilbur Loves Apple for the past year or so, and I am sad to this project come to an end.

Thank you Auria for all your work!

To all, and especially Auria and theonehorst.

I, for one, thank you for your efforts.

For what it is worth Apple recognize this site's binaries: (no small honor, IMHO)
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/u ... /gimp.html

And at the time of this writing it is the Featured Download for UNIX & Open Source page:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/

This was under your watch Auria, and Horst it was as much your .DMG for Leopard/Intel - - GOOD JOB.
So do not let anyone (especially yourself) say otherwise.

Once more, thank you very much.
Nick

I would love to take this project over myself but sadly I do not have sufficient time either. I, like you Auria, will be getting a new Mac someday soon and my personal need for Leopard/PPC will vanish. Thanx for all your hard work on the Gimp!! I've been using Gimp since the first Fink build, after OSX came to be, and I'll continue to use and support Gimp for as long as it exists! You have made a friend in me though! Would love to stay in contact with you beyond this project!

Thanx again Auria for all your hard work and patience!!
~Sam

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gimponosx

At least GimpOnOSX is providing current versions of Gimp for Leopard and Tiger.
http://sourceforge.net/project/platform ... _id=211713

... thanks, for posting this.

GimpOnOSX is the sourceforge project I now use to host all the packages for Leopard / Tiger / Intel / PPC. http://gimp.lisanet.de are just the web pages of this sourceforge project site.

As you can see, releasing recent Gimp packages is still continuing, despite the new URL...

-skl