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Discussion in 'Fairy Land' started by virtualTune, Aug 31, 2012.

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  1. virtualTune

    virtualTune Active Member

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    Anyone in the forum who has some experience with setting up a website, hosting etc.
    Guitarist got me thinking that maybe it's not a bad idea after all, to actually create a new gimper I have no idea what the running costs are though, so anyone got any experience?
     
  2. Arzoroc

    Arzoroc Moderator Staff Member

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    Rod has at least one running on his name if I recall correctly ... I dont know sh0t about running, programming or hosting a website, so just ignore me there >__<
     
  3. Cyrilshark

    Cyrilshark Active Member

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    I asked the owner of Gimpchat what his costs are - apparently around $100/month for him. I was thinking the same though, buying Gimper. I'd be happy to donate monthly.
     
  4. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Depends on what you go with. Generally it costs annually for a domain (anywhere between $10 and $50) and a few dollars up to $100 a month to manage the site.

    I usually use dreamhost to buy my domain names. NearlyFreeSpeech.net has some of the most inexpensive hosting I've seen. Their rate is usage based. So it all depends on what you're doing with the website. If you expect thousands or millions of people to visit the website every month then you'll want a dreamhost-like web hosting plan where it's a flat rate. If you're not sure then start with NearlyFreeSpeech and work your way up as you gauge the costs.

    If you're talking about building a website then it's also not hard. You just need something like phpBB or wordpress depending on the type you're doing. I tend to custom write my own websites but premade websites and forums are best for the majority of people who want one.
     
  5. virtualTune

    virtualTune Active Member

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    I was hoping to start a new website similar to this one. I am guessing that at first it would get 100+ clicks a day if old members from here are phased over to the new gimper. Sounds like a usage based rate is a good start. However i have no idea how much space and bandwidth is required for the average user. i suppose i would be looking at $50/year at first.
     
  6. Cyrilshark

    Cyrilshark Active Member

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    Sagteck, you get what you pay for.

    " $50/year"
    lol
     
  7. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    The $50 a year isn't hosting. It's *just* domain registration. There's more to owning a domain than just paying a monthly fee. Some places charge DNS hosting, web hosting, and domain registration all separately (but all three are needed for a operating a website).

    And that's not even including SSL certs or whois protection which I would recommend the whois protection at a minimum. Even the whois protection is charged separately at many places (though some offer it for free like Dreamhost).

    The phrase, "you get what you pay for," isn't accurate anymore because there's lots of quality open source software which is free (if you don't count operating and maintenance costs to said company).

    I'm going to post a followup post outlining the *actual* cost.
     
  8. Cyrilshark

    Cyrilshark Active Member

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    I know it's not hosting, I think that's what vT was expecting it to be for hosting though. You can get domain registration for as little as $5-10/year, yes?

    Anyways, I think we should try to get Gimper.net as a domain still. Or maybe .com.
     
  9. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Why the hell when I post I keep getting flagged as a spammer? I'll try splitting the post up I guess. A shitty "spam" filter if you ask me.
     
  10. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    I just did a network usage test on gimper.net and loading this page alone costs 860.6 KB of bandwidth (some of the links are off site but let's pretend they're all here).

    Let's assume two things,
    * your DNS, whois protection, and domain registration is done by dreamhost
    * your web hosting is done by nearlyfreespeech.net

    Domain registration cost
    • domain registration = 9.95/year
    • DNS hosting = included free with domain registration
    • whois protection = included free with domain registration

    This annual charge usually does not change unless you switch hosting providers.
     
  11. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Web hosting cost
    First let's look at the usage based plan.

    Web hosting can be broken down into a few categories.
    • disk storage space (the space on the hard drive which the website takes up when installed)
    • database backend and subsequently the disk space the database takes up. This is typically separated from the disk storage space.
    • Bandwidth (the amount of data transferred due to visitors accessing content)

    Things to be aware of: as users upload images to a forum your disk space will grow. This does not count if the images are hosted offsite by other services such as imgur, imageshack, dropbox, or photobucket. As users make more posts to your forum your database will grow. As more people access your website each month your bandwidth will grow.

    phpbb takes up about 12 MB when installed so we can use this as our metric if we assume nobody uploads images.
     
  12. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Let's look at the costs of each component at nearlyfreespeech.net.
    • disk space storage costs $0.01 per megabyte-month. So with phpbb it will be $0.12/month.
    • MySQL process is $0.02/day (or $7.30 per year). This includes 40MiB of database storage.
    • bandwidth is $1 for 1GB in one month. That means you can have
      1000000000/(860.6*1024) = 1134.7 page loads. (think 10 users loading 110 pages or 1100 users loading 1 page in a month)
     
  13. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Let's calculate your annual web hosting cost. $12 + $0.12*12 + $7.30 = $20.74 per year or $1.73 per month.
     
  14. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Overall cost in one year
    domain + web hosting
    $9.95 + $20.74 = $30.69 / year for hosting a forum with minimal user usage. Domain registration is charged once while web hosting is usually charged every month (in our case $1.73 per month).

    With a usage based plan the area that's going to cause you to have increased monthly costs will most likely be bandwidth and disk usage if you allow user uploaded images. The MySQL database generally won't grow above 40MiB until you have 50000 posts and the additional cost of more database storage is almost negligible compared bandwidth and disk usage.

    You might want to start considering switching hosting plans once you've reached the 10GB bandwidth usage limit (roughly 11355 monthly page loads of gimper).
     
  15. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Analyzing alternatives
    Now as your website gets more popular you start get more users/posts/monthly visitors. When this happens you want to start looking at flat rate hosting plans rather than a usage based plan. Let's look at Dreamhost webhosting plan. They charge $8.95/month for a flat rate plan. What you get is,
    • Unlimited disk storage + 50GB backups (you have to manually set up the back processes but they have good docs)
    • Unlimited database storage
    • Unlimited bandwidth
    • And a bunch of other stuff but I'm only listing those three so we can compare.

    So basically once your disk space usage and your annual visitors goes up to more than 10GB of bandwidth then I say it's time to consider migrating your hosting.

    Hopefully that was a sane breakdown. There I'm done, so stop flagging me as a spammer :)

    SAM
     
  16. Rod

    Rod Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose you could call it new-gimper.com.
    Either a rename or purchasing the domain name will be required.
     
  17. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    Also, Linux system administration is my profession. So I don't mind donating my expertise in getting a new gimper-like website set up on a hosting provider or providing future migration. I would need ssh and database admin access to set up the software though.
     
  18. sagteck

    sagteck Member

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    I was looking around the phpBB website and found a list of recommended hosting providers. Bluehost appears to be pretty good as well. Also, gimper.org appears to be available while gimper.com is not.
     
  19. virtualTune

    virtualTune Active Member

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    first of all, thank you for the detailed ecplanation, sam. I was on vacation otherwise i would have said sth before. I dont want to compete with the "gimper" name. Also, I want the website to be broader than just gimp. more of a designerz paradise forum :)
     
  20. Arzoroc

    Arzoroc Moderator Staff Member

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    To be honest, one of the crucial things we would need is an encouragement for new users to actually JOIN the forum instead of just reading by. But for that, we need something to get them to join. For example, we make video tutorials visible for members only (we'd need some video tutorials for that though ;D) or something simliar.
     
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